KenPhoto wrote:
It didn't take too long after the new rules for the 18+ contests were put into effect to figure out what shots will almost always win the contest. So, for anyone who would like to win the female 18+ contest, just follow these guidelines (because this is what gets the votes):

1.) Model: The model is in good shape and would traditionally be considered attractive
2.) Lighting: Well-lit, bright is better, but as long as most of the body can be seen
3.) Pose: Standing, facing the camera, with crotch and breasts clearly visible
4.) Framing: Full-body from head-to-toe works, but cropped just above the knee is better
5.) Retouching: Cleanly retouched (remove skin blemishes)
6.) Tattoos and Piercings: The more tattoos and body piercings the model has, the fewer votes you'll get

As long as you follow those six rules, you're much more likely to win the female 18+ contest. If you don't believe me, look at the winning shots since the rules change. I'm not saying this is how it should be, I'm just saying that's what will almost always get the most votes. Maybe by pointing this out, that will change, but I doubt it.

Also, I'd recommend getting any images pre-approved by the mods before entering them in the contest so you don't get any points against you if the mods decide your image is not acceptable. Email your shots to [email protected] and ask for pre-approval.

Step 0.) Submit on a day that KenPhoto does not.

Yes, what I've observed is less variety, fewer concepts. Your images are solidly beautiful, and within the guidelines. Getting crazy creative is not valued by the masses. While your #1 guideline is quite true, it seems to be the main focus of the photo contest. Right? Wrong? Does not matter. It is what the voters decide, and to some degree, it also follows how I vote.

We have lost the high-end fine art nudes. Many of those artists have decided to set up profiles on another modeling-photography network. It is a loss for the MM community. I do not excel at that art, but I do enjoy viewing it.

Full frontal is what the voters prefer, no doubt. I went back to see when was the last time a model facing away from the camera won the contest - seven months ago (by KenPhoto). Has the new rules place more emphasis on trying to show more frontal, but just within the rules? Perhaps yet another example of unintended consequences of the new rules.

per #4) Framing, I've seen something odd. The mods reject when you are too tightly cropped, too close to the model. Just above the knee is not always the best choice for artistic cropping, yet safe cropping for the contest. What is odd is take a photo of a full length model, now crop head-to-knee, and it is fine for the contest. However, crop such that you have more negative space above her head and less thigh, suddenly that same image becomes unacceptable for being too close. You didn't move. The model didn't move. You are not cropping tighter, just higher. Yet somehow you came too close even if the crotch is no more visible or proportionally larger in the second image. Somehow the amount of thigh decides if you are too close regardless of the space above the model's head.

Eric212Grapher wrote:
Step 0.) Submit on a day that KenPhoto does not.

There are a number of other photographers whose artwork I greatly admire on this site and who enter the 18+ contest. Strome Photo, AdmiringBeautyArt, Geoffrey Cutts, Kevin Kolber, Scott Pierson, Pixyst, to name a few. If my aim is to win the contest, I will enter shots I know people tend to vote for. But I do like entering more artistic nudes as well, I just know they likely won't win:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/389513
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/388980
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/388787
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/388719
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/388673
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/389120
https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/388590

I was honestly surprised this shot won, as I felt it was pretty artistic and not intended to be sensual:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/contests/po … iew/389365

But it did still follow the six rules I laid out above pretty closely

Eric212Grapher wrote:
We have lost the high-end fine art nudes. Many of those artists have decided to set up profiles on another modeling-photography network. It is a loss for the MM community.

I wouldn't say we've totally lost them. I do still see some pretty impressive fine art nudes (although increasingly fewer, for sure) in the contest. They just don't get the votes that the more revealing, sensual shots do.

Eric212Grapher wrote:
Full frontal is what the voters prefer, no doubt. I went back to see when was the last time a model facing away from the camera won the contest - seven months ago (by KenPhoto). Has the new rules place more emphasis on trying to show more frontal, but just within the rules? Perhaps yet another example of unintended consequences of the new rules.

I think a big reason for that is that the mods don't allow any anus to be visible, which seems to also include any darker areas around it. That's going to exclude a huge amount of photos because that darker area is visible on many models from behind regardless of how they're standing. And, of course, the image will also be rejected if the model is perceived to be bending at the waist. This has virtually eliminated any shots from behind where any genitals are visible, and photos of just a bare butt (no matter how amazing the photo is) will be very unlikely to get enough votes to win the 18+ contest.

Eric212Grapher wrote:
per #4) Framing, I've seen something odd. The mods reject when you are too tightly cropped, too close to the model. Just above the knee is not always the best choice for artistic cropping, yet safe cropping for the contest. What is odd is take a photo of a full length model, now crop head-to-knee, and it is fine for the contest. However, crop such that you have more negative space above her head and less thigh, suddenly that same image becomes unacceptable for being too close. You didn't move. The model didn't move. You are not cropping tighter, just higher. Yet somehow you came too close even if the crotch is no more visible or proportionally larger in the second image. Somehow the amount of thigh decides if you are too close regardless of the space above the model's head.

Yes, I've noticed that as well. It seems that if your photo has visible genitals and you crop where the genitals are near the edge of the frame, the mods are going to reject it for being "too tightly cropped" even if the model is fairly small in the frame and the opposite side of the frame has a large amount of space. My guess is this is due (at least in part) to the fact that they have a difficult time telling how far apart the legs are in this case, thus they can't say if it violates the rule about leg separation or not. But maybe a mod can chime and and let us know.

Erin Koski wrote:
I try to take into account the empty space above a model's head, but you're right, there's more wiggle room at the top than at the bottom of the frame for close crop.  Maybe I can figure out a better way to review them so we can tighten up on consistency because you're right, I don't want images that are just "panned up" a bit, to suddenly become "too close" when they were fine when panned down.

Is there any accuracy to my theory that the mods tend to be more strict on images that crop near the crotch (even if they're fairly wide, otherwise) because they can't tell for sure how far apart the legs are and, therefore, whether or not the image would violate the rule about legs not being too far apart?

KenPhoto wrote:
It didn't take too long after the new rules for the 18+ contests were put into effect to figure out what shots will almost always win the contest. So, for anyone who would like to win the female 18+ contest, just follow these guidelines (because this is what gets the votes):

1.) Model: The model is in good shape and would traditionally be considered attractive
2.) Lighting: Well-lit, bright is better, but as long as most of the body can be seen
3.) Pose: Standing, facing the camera, with crotch and breasts clearly visible
4.) Framing: Full-body from head-to-toe works, but cropped just above the knee is better
5.) Retouching: Cleanly retouched (remove skin blemishes)
6.) Tattoos and Piercings: The more tattoos and body piercings the model has, the fewer votes you'll get

To which I would add:

7.) Avoid horizontal aspect ratios.

Focuspuller wrote:
To which I would add:

7.) Avoid horizontal aspect ratios.

Yes. That point is so much a given, I forgot to include it

#4 should read, "Framing: Vertical orientation. Full-body from head-to-toe works, but cropped just above the knee is better"

KenPhoto wrote:
It didn't take too long after the new rules for the 18+ contests were put into effect to figure out what shots will almost always win the contest. So, for anyone who would like to win the female 18+ contest, just follow these guidelines (because this is what gets the votes):

1.) Model: The model is in good shape and would traditionally be considered attractive
2.) Lighting: Well-lit, bright is better, but as long as most of the body can be seen
3.) Pose: Standing, facing the camera, with crotch and breasts clearly visible
4.) Framing: Full-body from head-to-toe works, but cropped just above the knee is better
5.) Retouching: Cleanly retouched (remove skin blemishes)
6.) Tattoos and Piercings: The more tattoos and body piercings the model has, the fewer votes you'll get

As I've said on many occasions Mr K, I truly enjoy the images you produce, the skill level you display, the models you choose, the energy and attitude that comes across are all wonderfully done  .  .  .  but (ya jest knew that was coming I'll bet), to run contests that are supposed to be a way of showing what current inhabitants of the site are doing and having that spark interaction between fellow members is fruitless if all you're seeing is the same basic image (the one you've outlined above) remade time and time again  .  .  .  if the goal is to consistently "win" a contest with less than double digit entries based on the way it's administered, I think you've set your sights far too low  .  .  .  basically, they could just put the works (or clones) of Alberto Vargas, Gil Elvgren, George Petty, Joyce Ballantyne (who I knew, and much enjoyed interacting with), Earl Moran, or PB alumni Arny Freytag, Pompeo Posar, "our own" Ken Marcus, the Randalls (Holly and Suze), Stephen Wayda, Bunny Yeagar, Harvey Kurtzman, or Patrick Nagal up on a continual loop and call it a day  .  .  .  or, better yet, just input all the images they all produced into a computer and have AI spit out a continuous stream of newly created entries daily for the foreseeable future  .  .  .  sameness and conformity to a set equation are truly the death knell to creativity  .  .  .  okay, I'll step down from my soap box now, I need a nap!

SOS

sospix wrote:
As I've said on many occasions Mr K, I truly enjoy the images you produce, the skill level you display, the models you choose, the energy and attitude that comes across are all wonderfully done  .  .  .  but (ya jest knew that was coming I'll bet), to run contests that are supposed to be a way of showing what current inhabitants of the site are doing and having that spark interaction between fellow members is fruitless if all you're seeing is the same basic image (the one you've outlined above) remade time and time again  .  .  .  if the goal is to consistently "win" a contest with less than double digit entries based on the way it's administered, I think you've set your sights far too low  .  .  .  basically, they could just put the works (or clones) of Alberto Vargas, Gil Elvgren, George Petty, Joyce Ballantyne (who I knew, and much enjoyed interacting with), Earl Moran, or PB alumni Arny Freytag, Pompeo Posar, "our own" Ken Marcus, the Randalls (Holly and Suze), Stephen Wayda, Bunny Yeagar, Harvey Kurtzman, or Patrick Nagal up on a continual loop and call it a day  .  .  .  or, better yet, just input all the images they all produced into a computer and have AI spit out a continuous stream of newly created entries daily for the foreseeable future  .  .  .  sameness and conformity to a set equation are truly the death knell to creativity  .  .  .  okay, I'll step down from my soap box now, I need a nap!

SOS

Yes, this was kind of my point. The "sameness and conformity" is what the voters apparently want, because the images that follow the six guidelines I laid out are what win 90% or more of the time, assuming an image that follows those guidelines was submitted that day.

Soooooooo, does "winning" a contest under those circumstances with the same group of voters voting for the same style images over and over again actually have any significance in moving the needle as far as creativity and artistic expression, or is it jest a means for the contests to try and prop up fading participation and interest?  I noticed you did include some "out of the norm" images in your initial post (the one with the flared red cape was especially striking), which tact is a more satisfying road for you to explore Mr K?

SOS

sospix wrote:
Soooooooo, does "winning" a contest under those circumstances with the same group of voters voting for the same style images over and over again actually have any significance in moving the needle as far as creativity and artistic expression, or is it jest a means for the contests to try and prop up fading participation and interest?  I noticed you did include some "out of the norm" images in your initial post (the one with the flared red cape was especially striking), which tact is a more satisfying road for you to explore Mr K?

SOS

It's definitely more enjoyable to win with a shot that I find to be more creative, with more planning and effort put into it. That's why I try to vary the images I enter. I will often enter shots that I have no expectation of winning, just to have them out there. Of course, there's always a slight idea in the back of your mind that one of your very artistic shots will win the 18+ Contest, but that's very rarely the result.

You just have to tamper your expectations on MM.

In most cases the creative part of a project is much more fulfilling than either the actual execution or the response it garners when it's released to the "public" to throw stones at  .  .  .  I'm of the opinion that that's what separates a truly artistic endeavour, from a purely commercial based project when one must consider the client's parameters, and push for a desired response from a specific viewing audience  .  .  .  the "I'm not an artist, but I know what I like" crowd be damned  .  .  .  of course that tact has produced a multitude of starving artists throughout history, who sadly only achieve public acceptance and perceived value of their work long after they've departed  .  .  .  luckily, NFT has saved the day, I guess I should update my bio to "deceased" again to generate some more brisk sales  .  .  . 

SOS