JSouthworth wrote:
How would I know? Let me know how your survey turns out.

-
You are incapable of evaluating the quality of your posts and so inept at critical thought that others should have to quantify evaluations of your performance for you?  Would you listen to the results of a survey when you do not listen to anything else that is presented to you that challenges your concepts?  You are acknowledging that you are incapable of self-evaluating your posts and you are equally unable to took at the criticisms and disagreements you receive, then make comparisons to praise and agreements?  It is more complicated in your case because many people simply avoid posting in threads in which you are active- though maybe that could also be among the indices for you to evaluate?  Wouldn't it be true, in that because you ask, "How would I know," it is a strong indicator that you fail to meet the goals you have set for others?  If you can see the dumb assed comments in the posts of others, why can't you see them in your posts?

Does anyone else quote their own posts on a regular basis, such as you do, so that you may expound on what you yourself has said?  Would you feel that because you so often must clarify and pontificate over your own expressions, that perhaps your posts are perceived in a manner that people wonder if  "you have anything intelligent to say about anything?"

When you make comparisons to The Holocaust are you defining a holocaust based on the actions and conditions in The Holocaust or are you using a more inclusive definition?  What are your criteria for the term holocaust to be accurate and why would anyone have to ask that question if your posts were intellectually sufficient?  When the armies bombed and leveled cities in WW2 and fought in close quarters in towns and villages, was that a holocaust?  When an army operates from civilian centers for the purpose of providing cover for themselves at the expenses of the civilian population, are they themselves responsible for the subsequent attacks which harm the civilian population?  In your Ukraine thread, are you equally adamant about how the Russian attacks on the population centers of Ukraine have been a holocaust?  Do you equate Russia with Nazism?

What characteristics of the holocaust perpetrated by Nazi Germany exist and are lacking in the holocaust you claim Israel is committing?

When you declare that people cannot be represented as Nazis because Nazi Germany ceased to exist in 1945, are you saying the Nazi party also ceased to exist in 1945 and the Nazi philosophy also ceased to exist?  Therefore, all those that self-identify as Nazis today do not exist?  Neo-Nazis do not seek to revive, reinstate and continue the efforts of Nazis from the time prior to 1946?

Are you saying that it is illogical to make any comparisons of events today to any past civilizations that existed under a different government entity, from any time period?  Therefore, it is illogical to compare the rise of fascism today to the rise of fascism in the 1930's just because the fascist at the time were violently deposed?

When you pontificate that people born after a horrific event should not feel a national or personal responsibility for the actions that allow them to live the life they live now, do you not consider that there is generational wealth passed down that is a result of the horrific actions of one's predecessors- just as other people have generational consequences that are negative?  Why do you feel that we must have blood on our hands that is the result of only our actions, if we have enjoyed the consequences of the actions of those that came before us?

When a man, such as DeSantis, has no empathy for a man like George Floyd because DeSantis didn't kneel on Floyd's neck, does it also indicate that he is unaware of the societal influences that allowed that event and which perpetuate such events? When he, as a politician, has enacted and favored laws that do perpetuate such events and failed to enact changes to prevent such events? 

The question not only remains, but is reinforced with your continued posts, "Do you have anything intelligent to say about anything?"

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
-
You are incapable of evaluating the quality of your posts and so inept at critical thought that others should have to quantify evaluations of your performance for you?

Has anyone, anywhere ever written more words to less effect than you do? I seriously doubt it. I can't be bothered to read most of your stuff because it's just bombastic, semi-literate nonsense.

Above is an an example of what I mean. You try to make a statement and put a question in the same sentence, and the result is gibberish.

JSouthworth wrote:
Has anyone, anywhere ever written more words to less effect than you do? I seriously doubt it. I can't be bothered to read most of your stuff because it's just bombastic, semi-literate nonsense.

Above is an an example of what I mean. You try to make a statement and put a question in the same sentence, and the result is gibberish.

-
Ah, the root of your problem is that you are unable and unwilling to open your mind and read?  To answer questions?  You are incapable of contemplating anything but short and inane posts and that is why your posts are so devoid of intellectual prowess?  Yet when looking a short posts, you still reply with inane comments and refuse to provide intellectual debate.  It is no wonder why you do not self-evaluate!

You find it preferable to post completely illiterate nonsense in a series of short, pompous, intellectually devoid comments and then have to add on to your posts time and time and time again?  Do your combination posts and constant reiteration of the same the ideas also bore you to tears when you read back over the illogical expressions you use?

If brevity was the ideal, then the Declaration of Independence could have been limited to, "Bugger off, George."

You are aware that it is common to express statements as a question?  They are called statement questions.  Yeah, really.

One rule would be to add a question tag, right?  ( ie., One rule would be to add a question tag, right? )  Are your reading abilities limited to the point you need question tags? 

Are you familiar with the technique of adding a question mark after a statement to express disbelief? (ie., You make intellectually valid posts?)   Apparently not?

You are free to ignore my post because, obviously, they are not written for someone with your skill sets, don't you think?  Aren't you the guy that doesn't understand that a word can also be a term?  You express yourself as illiterate to the point of it being funny, right?

JSouthworth wrote:
...there is no evidence that the majority of Germans wanted either WW2 or the Holocaust which was kept secret as far as possible, publicly it was referred to as "resettlement" and only within the SS as the "Final Solution".That is to say that the Nazis were responsible for the Holocaust, not the German people who were never told about it officially while it was happening. If Germany's leaders today wish to inherit the responsibility for the Holocaust, they may have a right to do so on their own behalf, but not in my view on behalf of the people that they represent...

In YOUR view? Your ignorant apologia you mean.

"... no evidence "? You cannot be serious.

Regurgitating the myth of the poor, misled German people who had no clue, in the face of not only clear evidence of the mass adoration of Hitler, documentaries with testimony of the willful ignorance of the German people, conforming to the Nazi regime, EN MASSE, committing widespread acts of collaboration and complicity and  SILENCE.  Why then, do the German people TODAY accept responsibility and shame for their elders' willful acquiescence to Nazism.?

SCHRÖDER SAYS ALL GERMANS MUST TAKE BLAME FOR THE HOLOCAUST
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/ … ndworldwar

COMPLICITY IN THE HOLOCAUST
https://assets.cambridge.org/97811070/1 … matter.pdf

Your "view" is disgusting, pathetic, and shameful. And wrong. Have a shitty day, you have earned it. And thanks for showing clearly why trolls cannot be ignored, lest lies take root and create fertile ground for future horrors.

Focuspuller wrote:
Regurgitating the myth of the poor, misled German people who had no clue, in the face of not only clear evidence of the mass adoration of Hitler, documentaries with testimony of the willful ignorance of the German people, conforming to the Nazi regime, EN MASSE, committing widespread acts of collaboration and complicity and  SILENCE.  Why then, do the German people TODAY accept responsibility and shame for their elders' willful acquiescence to Nazism.?

What a load of rubbish. Do you think you'd have the courage to risk interrogation by the Gestapo? Imprisonment in a concentration camp? It's possible that the "Final Solution" was intended to forestall the development of any mass protest movement against the Nazi regime among the non-Jewish population of Germany and Eastern Europe at a time when it was becoming clear that Germany was losing the war, in which case it succeeded. Nevertheless, there were Germans who did organise active resistance to Hitler.

JSouthworth wrote:
What a load of rubbish. Do you think you'd have the courage to risk interrogation by the Gestapo? Imprisonment in a concentration camp? ... Nevertheless, there were Germans who did organise active resistance to Hitler.

That leaves 99% of the German people willfully voting for, collaborating, complicit, and ardently raising the Nazi salute in mass support for gangsters, not concerned about the stench emanating from the extermination camps,  Thanks for making my point.

https://commons.marymount.edu/magnifica … i-germany/

https://refusefascism.org/2017/07/04/ho … le-horror/

https://assets.cambridge.org/97811070/1 … matter.pdf

JSouthworth wrote:
What a load of rubbish. Do you think you'd have the courage to risk interrogation by the Gestapo? Imprisonment in a concentration camp? It's possible that the "Final Solution" was intended to forestall the development of any mass protest movement against the Nazi regime among the non-Jewish population of Germany and Eastern Europe at a time when it was becoming clear that Germany was losing the war, in which case it succeeded. Nevertheless, there were Germans who did organise active resistance to Hitler.

Another theory is that Hermann Goering ordered the "Final Solution" as a means of placating Hitler and maintaining his position in the Nazi hierarchy after the failure of the Luftwaffe to prevent destructive bombing raids on German cities.

JSouthworth wrote:
Has anyone, anywhere ever written more words to less effect than you do?

LOL, classic. Since you asked the question I'll answer it - YOU.

JSouthworth wrote:
What a load of rubbish. Do you think you'd have the courage to risk interrogation by the Gestapo? Imprisonment in a concentration camp?

Did you just say that you wouldn't?

JSouthworth wrote:
What a load of rubbish. Do you think you'd have the courage to risk interrogation by the Gestapo? Imprisonment in a concentration camp?

-
(I hope that I am making the post long enough, so that those that despise knowledge and debate won't be reading this post- though I may yet have to endure a poorly thought out reply because the ignorant love to say something silly. I may be motivated to write because of those that can't be bothered to read, but I don't write for them.  I know that they are incapable of digesting and discussing opposing views.)

Perhaps someone could explain how a person that does not have the courage to do the right thing and to stand up against evil absolves the people who turned away and embraced their cowardice?  Evil flourishes when good men do nothing.  Therefore, doing nothing was (and is) contributing to and enabling the actions of the evil, was it not?

Certainly an informed, intelligent and enlightened individual has read the NIEMÖLLER poem.  "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist." ... "Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."  That is why there is and should be collective guilt in Germany. 

Now, the imbeciles of the world may say, "But, I wasn't around when that happened.  Therefore, I had no part in it and I have no responsibilities and am not part of the collective guilt."   Taking the United States as an example, none of us here today have ever taken a direct action to enslave people from Africa or the native people; we feel secure that we did not raise our weapons when our forefathers attempted to exterminate our indigenous people, stole their land and tried to erase their culture, identity and religions (some of those regarding the later are still around); most of us did not help to develop nuclear weapons and none of us still alive ordered the atomic bombs to be dropped on Japan.  These are all things that the United States did- and who is the United States if not us?  Of course, jolly ol' England has collective guilt from atrocities all over the globe- including American slavery and genocide on these shores.

I know that some people will dismiss my argument on the basis that they weren't born or their ancestors hadn't iimagrated to these lands when all this was done, but there are two things to consider:  People that live here have benefits that have been handed down and derived from past actions.  Then, when those that deny responsibilities for past atrocities get into a patriotic furor and proclaim how the North (or the Republicans) threw off slavery; or how we defeated the British and won our freedom; or how they arrogantly claim the United States won the Second World War- well, quite simply, none but a few that are left from the Second World War contributed to these tremendous achievements- yet people will shout out their claims of ownership of that of which they are proud of in our collective past.  If we own the good, we own the bad.

JSouthworth wrote:
What a load of rubbish. Do you think you'd have the courage to risk interrogation by the Gestapo? Imprisonment in a concentration camp? It's possible that the "Final Solution" was intended to forestall the development of any mass protest movement against the Nazi regime among the non-Jewish population of Germany and Eastern Europe at a time when it was becoming clear that Germany was losing the war, in which case it succeeded. Nevertheless, there were Germans who did organise active resistance to Hitler.

JSouthworth wrote:
Another theory is that Hermann Goering ordered the "Final Solution" as a means of placating Hitler and maintaining his position in the Nazi hierarchy after the failure of the Luftwaffe to prevent destructive bombing raids on German cities.

-
Adding onto your posts again?  You couldn't complete the thought the last time?  Or the time before that?  In this latest empty tidbit you added on, whose theory are you discussing?  Did you just make it up? 

According to footnote 3, below, 'the outline for the “final solution” had been drawn up on January 24, 1939.'  The United States didn't enter the war until the end of 1941, after extermination began, and significant bombing of German infrastructure did not begin upon entry in the war.  Therefore, what must be your theory regarding the motivation of implementing the final solution disregards the known timelines of German atrocities and the progress of the war and is, as you put it, stupid and pointless.   Leaving us wondering if "you have anything intelligent to say about anything."

"The Nazi "Final Solution to the Jewish Question" ("Endlösung der Judenfrage") was the deliberate and systematic mass murder of European Jews. It was the last stage of the Holocaust and took place from 1941 to 1945. Though many Jews were killed before the "Final Solution" began, the vast majority of Jewish victims were murdered during this period. "[1]

Have you considered that Hitler devised and ordered the final solution?  "In a 1939 written decree,
Hitler charged program head Reichsleiter Philip Bouhler, and lead program physician Dr. Karl Brandt,
with “the responsibility for expanding the authority of physicians...to the end that patients considered
incurable...can be granted mercy death.”
However, Hitler quickly came to regret authorizing the program in writing, as throughout 1940 the general population became increasingly aware that thousands of mentally and physically disabled Germans were being 'mercy-killed' by the Nazis in a Hitler-sanctioned state program. Between 1940 and 1941 the German people's negative reaction became increasingly vocal and vehement, culminating in Hitler being openly jeered by a crowd watching mentally challenged patients being loaded onto a train at a rail station in Hof, Bavaria in 1941.
Ultimately, this negative public reaction to the T4 program and Hitler's sanctioning of it, bolstered by denunciations from Catholic and Protestant church leaders, forced Hitler to publicly cancel the program in August of 1941, though it continued in secret until 1945.
Overall, no direct Hitler order for the Final Solution has ever been found due to the public relations debacle that erupted over his sanctioning of the T4 program, [and the massive destruction of documents by the Germans towards the end of the war] as well as its successful continuation in secret following its public 'cancellation'. These events reinforced for Hitler the value of carrying out his programs of systematic murder covertly without written orders, and subsequently informed his methodology for implementing the Final Solution.
An example of opposition to the T4 program from within the German government is seen in Justice Minister Franz Gurtner, who refused to cooperate with the program until being shown Hitler's written authorization in August of 1940."[2]

"On July 31, 1941, Hermann Göring, writing under instructions from Hitler, ordered Reinhard Heydrich, SS general and Heinrich Himmler’s number-two man, “to submit to me as soon as possible a general plan of the administrative material and financial measures necessary for carrying out the desired final solution of the Jewish question.”
Goering recounted briefly the outline for that “final solution” that had been drawn up on January 24, 1939: “emigration and evacuation in the best possible way.” This program of what would become mass, systematic extermination was to encompass “all the territories of Europe under German occupation.”"[3]

"From February 1942 onward, the British bombing campaign against Germany became even less restrictive and increasingly targeted industrial sites and civilian areas. When the United States began flying bombing missions against Germany, it reinforced British efforts."[4]

"In 1942, about 300,000 Jews had been deported from the Warsaw ghetto to Treblinka."[5]
"RAF Bomber Command was authorized to attack German targets east of the Rhine on 15 May 1940" [6]


[1] https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ … n-overview
[2] https://digitalcommons.iwu.edu/cgi/view … nstructing
[3] https://www.history.com/this-day-in-his … l-solution
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic … rld_War_II
[5] https://www.facinghistory.org/resource- … o-uprising
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic … rld_War_II

JSouthworth wrote:
For most of the last two months the Israeli military have been dragging the Stars and Stripes through the toilet by using US supplied munitions to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians. If Joe Biden was looking for some payback for that and for their sabotaging of his visit to the region in October, one way to obtain it would be by imposing the two state solution that people keep talking about, in a way which would humiliate the Israeli leadership to the point where nobody would take them seriously afterwards. This could be done by imposing an embargo on trade, including parts for Israel's US supplied aircraft, in combination with diplomatic pressure.

In practice however a two state solution is probably not possible, because there is no single Palestinian political entity that is representative of the Palestinian people. The Israel-supported Palestinian Authority in the West Bank is often viewed as a corrupt, collaborationist legacy of the PLO, but still commands some loyalty whereas HAMAS have inherited the mantle of the more radical Palestinian political groupings like the PFLP, and their political profile has been enhanced recently by the events of 10/07 and Israel's response.

Would a three state solution be possible, in which the West Bank and the Gaza strip both become separate independent states, perhaps with the option of political amalgamation at some future point in time?

In practical terms this would mean the removal of Israeli military authority and Jewish settlements in the West Bank. Gaza would have a border with Egypt and would be able to trade freely without restrictions. The two states would have to co-operate to achieve successful economic development, and this would encourage political moderation.

I'm trying to figure out whether your anti-Israeli or anti-American. I suppose it could be both.

P R E S T O N wrote:

I'm trying to figure out whether your anti-Israeli or anti-American. I suppose it could be both.

What makes you think I'm either? Paranoia.

P R E S T O N wrote:
WARNING: The following website contains violent content. Viewer discretion is advised.

https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … y-massacre
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … heir-homes
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … he-streets
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … gaza-strip
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … lian-areas

Nothing we haven't seen before. Netanyahu and the Israel state media like to reduce the issue to the level of hysterical racism and religious bigotry because they don't have anything better to offer. Neither did Joseph Goebbels and the Nazi propaganda machine in 1944-45. What they do have to offer is more of the same; Israel's actions in Gaza are intended to perpetuate the conflict and prevent any permanent political solution.

P R E S T O N wrote:
WARNING: The following website contains violent content. Viewer discretion is advised.

https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … y-massacre
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … heir-homes
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … he-streets
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … gaza-strip
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … lian-areas

Gaza is a prison. So it's hardly surprising when some of it's citizens behave a bit like rioting prison inmates. But HAMAS also have significant military capabilities.

P R E S T O N wrote:
WARNING: The following website contains violent content. Viewer discretion is advised.

https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … y-massacre
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … heir-homes
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … he-streets
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … gaza-strip
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … lian-areas

Where was the Israeli Army while all this was going on?

It appears that most of it's active personnel were in the West Bank protecting Jewish settlers from other Palestinians who didn't appreciate the appropriation of their homes and land.

JSouthworth wrote:
In it's treatment of the Palestinians, the Israeli state can be seen to have repeated the Nazis' treatment of the Jews and the Poles, leaving them with few options other than armed resistance. This is what they did in 1948 and it's what they're still doing in Gaza at the present time.

Ah yes, Jews and Muslims. Unlike all that good will for centuries with the English and Irish in the U.K.

And then there's the estimated 100 million residents of the colonies of the English Empire over the centuries that died at the hands of the English military. 

And England, one of 2 countries that did a land invasion of the U.S.

So Southy, maybe you think the U.K. did a great job as the administrator of Palestine after WWI until 1948.   

.

rxz wrote:
Ah yes, Jews and Muslims. Unlike all that good will for centuries with the English and Irish in the U.K.

And then there's the estimated 100 million residents of the colonies of the English Empire over the centuries that died at the hands of the English military. 

And England, one of 2 countries that did a land invasion of the U.S.

So Southy, maybe you think the U.K. did a great job as the administrator of Palestine after WWI until 1948.   

.

Palestine was governed by Great Britain for more than 30 years from 1917 onwards under a mandate from the League of Nations, for most of that time they were able to maintain an uneasy status quo but the situation became unmanageable when large numbers of Jewish immigrants from Europe began arriving after WW2.

P R E S T O N wrote:
WARNING: The following website contains violent content. Viewer discretion is advised.

https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … y-massacre
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … heir-homes
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … he-streets
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … gaza-strip
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categori … lian-areas

What do you think is the point of just posting the same four links over and over again? If you think you can write something about the situation in Israel without making yourself look retarded, this is the place. Give it your best shot.

Nothing that happened on October 7, or prior to that justifies the indiscriminate killing of over 17.000 people, mostly women and children, in Gaza by the Israeli Defence Force.

P R E S T O N wrote:

You don't seem to have anything intelligent to say on any of the other discussion topics, so I guess we can't expect anything much on this one either.

JSouthworth wrote:
"Palestine was governed by Great Britain for more than 30 years from 1917 onwards under a mandate from the League of Nations, for most of that time they were able to maintain an uneasy status quo but the situation became unmanageable when large numbers of Jewish immigrants from Europe began arriving after WWII"

Understandable you didn't want to address this earlier, but since you insist on whitewashing history...

UK APOLOGY SOUGHT FOR BRITISH WAR CRIMES IN PALESTINE

"A BBC review of the historical evidence involved includes details of arbitrary killings, torture, the use of human shields and the introduction of home demolitions as collective punishment. Much of it was conducted within formal policy guidelines for UK forces at the time or with the consent of senior officers."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63145992

So, a benign British "uneasy status quo" until Jews displaced by the Holocaust showed up and ruined everything. Right?

Focuspuller wrote:

JSouthworth wrote:
Palestine was governed by Great Britain for more than 30 years from 1917 onwards under a mandate from the League of Nations, for most of that time they were able to maintain an uneasy status quo but the situation became unmanageable when large numbers of Jewish immigrants from Europe began arriving after WW2/

"A BBC review of the historical evidence involved includes details of arbitrary killings, torture, the use of human shields and the introduction of home demolitions as collective punishment. Much of it was conducted within formal policy guidelines for UK forces at the time or with the consent of senior officers."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63145992

So what are you trying to tell us, that because UK forces in Palestine committed crimes 75 years ago, that justifies Israel indiscriminately killing several thousand Palestinian civilians in 2023, using US supplied bombs and shells, is that your point?

Many well known Israeli leaders were terrorists before they changed into suits and became politicians. Menachem Begin led the Irgun which carried out bombings and assassinations, including the bombing of the King David hotel in Jerusalem in 1946;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

The King David Hotel was rebuilt after the bombing and still exists;

https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/king-d … jerusalem/

British reprisals included vehicle bomb attacks which were attributed to deserters from the British Army. The British commander in Palestine, Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery (Monty of WW2 fame) wanted the top 50 Jewish leaders killed, but the British cabinet vetoed this plan. The book Blood and Rage; a Cultural History of Terrorism by Michael Burleigh may be worth your time if you want to know more about this dark chapter of history.

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/book … son-t.html